The Mastering Portrait Photography Podcast

Sometimes it's just a pleasure to sit back and listen.  This is one of those moments - for me, certainly, but hopefully for you too. 

I had the pleasure of sitting and chatting with two icons of the industry - Sean Conboy and the inimatable nonagenarian, Stuart Clark who is not only still shooting at the age of 97 but is a considerable racontour (you can hear me and Sean laughing in the background throughout!)

Stuart started his career in 1941, so his stories are not only entertaining but are fascinating as they cover every photography development from glass plate through to the state of the art digital wizardry we're facing today.

This interview is worth listening to every one of its 90 or so minutes!

Enjoy!

 

Cheers
P.

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If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to Mastering Portrait Photography, for more articles and videos about this beautiful industry. You can also read a full transcript of this episode.

PLEASE also subscribe and leave us a review - we'd love to hear what you think!

If there are any topics, you would like to hear, have questions we could answer or would like to come and be interviewed on the podcast, please contact me at paul@paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk. 

 

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Paul: So there are so, so many things I love about being in this industry, the things we get to do, and in particular, this podcast, and one of the many things is having these moments that you're about to hear, where I get to sit and chat with someone I've known for a very long time, Sean Conboy, fantastic photographer, and just a wonderful human being.

[00:00:20] And someone he introduced me to, a guy called Stuart Clark. 

[00:00:23] Now Stuart is 98 years old in July this year. Self proclaimed as one of the oldest working photographers in the country, and I'm not sure that anyone's going to argue with that. He started training as a photographer in 1940. That makes this, he's been working as a photographer for 84 years.

[00:00:46] And the whole of this interview is taking place in what was, his photography studio in a little town just outside Leeds. It's his front living room, but it's huge. It's got a high ceiling and you can imagine how the lighting would have been hot, continuous lights and families just having the best time with someone who I learned very quickly, is a storyteller and a raconteur, uh, just a wonderful, a wonderful human being. There are lots of things to listen out for in the following interview, and let me draw your attention to just a few. Uh, listen out for the flash powder story. It's very funny. Uh, the story of, uh, People retouching, lots of retouching stories from the 1940s and billiard ball complexions.

[00:01:31] . Doing multiple jobs in a day. He used to do three or four jobs in a day, and have the timing so accurate that could include photographing a wedding. He learned his craft. He's great.

[00:01:42] He's spent time creating images for press, looking for alternative, alternative images and looking for PR images that no matter how much a sub editor crops them, the brand or at least the story is still very much intact. He talks about the utter love of the job and appreciating what a privileged position photographers like ourselves are in every day of the week.

[00:02:07] He talks a little about the role of agencies and how they now manage messages from companies in a way that probably they never did. He talks about relationships and he talks about being positive and persistence. He also talks about the role of the Institute.

[00:02:24] Finally, he talks a little bit about photographers always being the fag end of everything, but in the end, what he talks about really, It's the love of his job and the love of his clients. 

[00:02:35] Why am I telling you all of this upfront? Well, this is a long interview, but the sound of Stuart's voice and the history that it represents, as well as the fact that he's more current than an awful lot of photographers who I know right now who are much younger, uh, but just, there's something in his, his entire manner that is captivating and enthralling, informative and useful. And so, although it's a long interview, I thought I'd just explain a little bit about why I found it so appealing and why I've left the edit almost entirely intact. I've removed a few lumps and bumps where we all managed to hit a microphone as we're gesticulating.

[00:03:16] So picture the scene, there's myself, Sean and Stuart sitting, in armchairs and on couches.

[00:03:27] And if you're wondering why it took me quite so long, this interview is actually, it goes back to February of this year, and why it took me quite so long to get it out, it was partly because there was a lot of of lumps to remove and partly because it was this trip, this interview, this podcast that I was returning home from when the Land Rover blew up.

[00:03:46] And frankly, I think there's a little bit of trauma there with a six and a half thousand pound bill to re, to replace and repair piston number two. I think my heart just, I needed a minute just to not recall it every single time I try to edit this particular podcast down. It's a wonderful interview. Please enjoy.

[00:04:06] I know it's quite long, um, but what an absolute legend. I'm Paul and this is the Mastering Portrait Photography Podcast. 

[00:04:32] So, firstly, Stuart, thank you for welcoming us into your home. We've driven quite a long way, uh, to come and see you. Sean, uh, recommended we speak to you, because the number of stories you have make even his collection of stories look Insignificant.

[00:04:48] And as we all know, Sean, The Footnote Conboy has more stories than any man I've ever met up until probably this, this moment in time. So to kick the conversation off, how did you become a photographer?

[00:05:05] Stuart: It was an unfortunate or fortunate chain of events because, um, I was at the Leeds College of Art in 1940, 41, and I had the desire and intention of being a commercial artist, which is now referred as graphic designer and at that time, being wartime, there was little advertising being done, and so, uh, perhaps I was not sufficiently talented, but I finished up working for a firm who were essentially photoengravers, but they had a commercial photography studio as well, and they were short of somebody to join them, and I went in there and became virtually an apprentice photographer. This was very interesting because at that time, again, there was very little commercial photography advertising being done, and so all our efforts, or most of our efforts, were centred on war work, which involved going round the factories and, uh, Photographing for record purposes, the input of the particular company. And in those days, I can tell you that that was not a very comfortable proposition because we were on total blackout, and therefore, all the fumes in the factory, whatever they were, had very little chance of escaping, so you've got the fumes and the heat, and then of course we were only Illuminating scenes with flash powder, which was an added hazard, and, and so Photography outside in the factories was not very pleasant, but inside the factory, or in the studio, we were also doing war work, and that was to photograph silhouettes, scale models of all aircraft of both the enemy and, uh, and, uh, Home, uh, Aircraft for identification purposes, so that the air gunners were not shooting our own planes down in action. And another very interesting thing which I have always remembered was that the four, or the eight cannons In the Spitfire, that was four in each wing, were harmonized to converge at a point away from the Spitfire so that the Fire, the maximum fire point was when those two lots of cannons converged.

[00:08:34] The only reference that the pilots had was a silhouette which we had photographed, so that he could visualize that silhouette in the, aiming sight of his 

[00:08:50] guns. 

[00:08:51] Paul: a very early heads up display. 

[00:08:53] Stuart: Indeed. 

[00:08:54] Paul: Yeah.

[00:08:55] Stuart: And, so, that was quite an important element, I think, of our war work for the Air Ministry.

[00:09:03] The main factory was engraving the, conical, rangefinder cones for 25 pound howitzers.

[00:09:14] Paul: Right.

[00:09:15] Stuart: And at the time of leaving school, everybody had to be doing war work. 

[00:09:21] And so I went to the company on the pretext of doing war work of that nature, rather than going round snapping.

[00:09:31] Paul: Right.

[00:09:32] Sean: Stuart, could you also, um, I mean you've told me many great tales about your time actually in the, uh, armed services film unit, i think that might be quite interesting, 

[00:09:42] Stuart: Well, I was called up and because of my interest in mechanical things and gadgetry and so forth, I finished up in the Royal Army Service Corps. But a friend of my mother's husband suggested that I applied for a trade test in photography. And one day I was called up to the orderly room and they said, We've got the movement order here for you. Um, to go to Pinewood Studios, of all places. I don't know what this is about, but anyway, here's your movement order. So, I went down to Pinewood, and we had a trade test, and I think I finished up, uh, top of the, the, uh, examination. But then I was returned to unit at Catterick, and I was up there for another few months, and then I was posted. And eventually, after about six weeks of the posting, I got another movement order to go back to Pinewood Studios, where I started my course in cinephotography,

[00:11:06] and still photography. Now, this was the last course. before Pinewood closed down and the unit closed down. I'm talking about Pinewood closing down, Pinewood was the headquarters of the Army Film and Photographic Unit from when it was formed in October 41.

[00:11:35] The course included preparation for action photography, essentially. when the course started, the war was still on in Central Europe. but before the course finished, it, uh, the war finished.

[00:11:58] And The Japanese War was still going on until September of the same year, which was 45. But we were still being trained, and when the course finished, we had very little to do but just wait to see what happened. And so from September to, um, December of that year, we were just hanging about in the studios.

[00:12:30] We were then posted to the Far East, in fact to Malaya, where the No. 9 unit was formed. Having been moved by Batten's headquarters, Mountbatten's headquarters, from Ceylon to Singapore, thought that it would be probably much more congenial there than in Ceylon, India.

[00:12:57] So number nine was there and it's interesting to note that right at this moment an exhibition is being produced for the photographer's gallery on Bert Hardy's life and Bert Hardy at the time that I there was, in fact, the stills captain in charge of all the still photography in Malay Command. Or the, not Malay Command, the Far East Command, because we had outstations in Java and Hong Kong, and even, uh, one guy, uh, was in, um, in Hiroshima. So that was the formation of the, the, uh, Far East, Southeast Asia Command photographic, uh, outfit. until it closed down, uh, in September, August September of 46, and we are then dispersed Some went to the Imperial War Museum, the Imperial, uh, war, graves Commission, et cetera, and six of us went back to Vienna, where we joined number 9, Public Relations, because unit had been disbanded completely. So, there in, uh, in Austria, we were doing what they call Local Boy Stories, and we made a couple of films on the Irish regiments and also the East Yorkshire, not the East Yorkshire, the Yorkshire regiments who were guarding and on guard duties at the palace, Shurnbran Palace, which everybody has heard of, and um, and so that carried on until, uh, the Until I was demobbed in 1947, December. came home and went back to the company I originally started with because they were compelled to take people for 12 months. And at the end of that time, I decided to leave I had a bit of a a difference of opinion with the studio manager, who was RAF, and I was Army, and I was a sergeant as well, and I don't think he was quite that when he was in the RAF photographic section, but there was a resentment anyway.

[00:16:02] of my presence. 

[00:16:03] So, I went to the firm called C. R. H. Pickards, who were one of the finest industrial, uh, and leading industrial photographic units, companies, in the north of England.

[00:16:24] It was there, then, that I began to learn industrial photography. And we photographed all sorts of various things, from factory engineering, factories, products and so forth, lathes, milling machines, railway engines, all manner of things. And that's where I cut my teeth on industrial photography.

[00:16:56] Sean: And, and Stuart, what sort of, um, equipment would you be using in those days? not 

[00:17:01] Stuart: so ha! 

[00:17:02] Sean: but how 

[00:17:03] would you be lighting these spaces in those days 

[00:17:05] Stuart: um The equipment that we were using was always, almost always, whole plate, six a half, eight by, eight and a half, six a half, uh, folding field cameras. when I started, we

[00:17:29] were on glass plates. But then the advent of film came in. And this was obviously much lighter stuff to carry around. And every, exposure had to count. Now in today's terms, where you press the button and pick the best out of however many, all we used to do was a duplicate at the most. So we used to There was a variation in the exposure or the aperture setting, and that was the only difference the two exposures.

[00:18:19] So what we used to do was develop one side of the, uh, the double dark slides, see what they were like, if they wanted a little bit more or a bit less development, that was applied to second side. And, don't know whether you've ever heard of the expression of, um, developing by, uh, vision. But we used to have a very dim green light, and the sensitive film.

[00:18:59] was not, uh, sensitive to the green light. 

[00:19:03] Paul: All right. 

[00:19:04] Stuart: But you had to be in the darkroom for ten minutes for your eyes to become adjusted, and you could then see absolutely every detail of the, the development process. And when the highlights started to you, to, To show a dark mark through the back of the antihalation backing, then the development was just about right, if but if you wanted a little bit more contrast, then you just pushed it on. If it had been a dull day, a dull, miserable day, then you pushed the development on a little bit further.

[00:19:49] Sean: And 

[00:19:49] Stuart: you've asked 

[00:19:50] Sean: be, how would you be lighting some of these scenes? I'm very intrigued at that 

[00:19:53] Stuart: I 

[00:19:53] Sean: that 

[00:19:53] Stuart: about to say that.

[00:19:54] Um, for big areas, we used to use flash powder. And a little bit of flash powder goes a long way, believe me. But it was pretty dangerous stuff. And um, I remember we photographed a wedding on one occasion at the Majestic Hotel Harrogate. And there were 450 people. at the reception and they wanted a photograph to show as many of the people as possible. So we put the whole plate camera on a table stood up there with tray into which I poured flash powder.

[00:20:38] Now then, this was actuated. with a percussion cap, like we used to have in little

[00:20:46] hand pistols for toys. and when you pulled the release catch, that ignited the cap,

[00:20:56] that ignited the flash powder.

[00:21:00] So, the exposure was only going to be once. One exposure.

[00:21:07] And so, the photographer I was with, he said, right everybody. Look this way, and I want to be making sure that everybody keeps still.

[00:21:21] I'm going to count five for you, but don't move until I've finished counting.

[00:21:29] So the idea was to take the sheath out of the slide. With having put a cap over the lens, shutter, just an open lens with a cap or a lid on the front.

[00:21:46] And the technique was to take the cap off hold it in front of the lens, so that that allowed the vibration or any vibration in the camera to settle down and then take the exposure. the idea was count 1, 2, 3, 4, then take the cup off. And on four I ignited the flash gun and then the cup went on and the guy that I was worth put the sheath back and said, right, let's get out of here quick. The reason for that was that you got the brightness, got the, the buildup of the available lights. then it's just topped off, illuminated with the flash, not a very big one, I hasten to add. But the significance of flash powder was that there was a flame which simply went upwards. 

[00:23:00] And that was it, that was all there was to be seen. But, it produced smoke, which used to go into, onto the ceiling, and it would roll across the ceiling, carrying with it the grains of the flash powder, which had obviously changed colour from

[00:23:24] silver

[00:23:25] To yellow, that was okay. But when the waiters came to move the, uh, soup plates, what they found was a white circle on a yellow 

[00:23:47] cloth.

[00:23:51] And you can also visualize the fact that a lot of people had a lot of. Little flash powder grains in their hair 

[00:24:01] as well. well. By the time that

[00:24:04] By the time that this happened, we were halfway back to Leeds. 

[00:24:08] Sean: Very good. 

[00:24:09] Stuart: But this this was the scourge of flash powder because you could only take one shot. Because the place used to, the whole of the place, the factory, if you using a large amount of powder, made a lot of smoke, and it just collected on the ceiling and it obscured it, the vision. So, we used to use photo floods, these were overrun pearl lamps, we used to have six on a button. And if the subject was still, we could go around on a long lead and paint scene with light. And that was, and that became established, So flash balder started to go,

[00:25:08] Paul: Right.

[00:25:10] Stuart: but you see, at this time, flash bulbs hadn't really got going.

[00:25:17] The GEC flash bulbs, which were foil filled, were about the only thing that was available. Um, in this, in this country. And they were sympathetic.

[00:25:31] And the GEC Warehouse in Leeds on one occasion, uh, a consignment of, um, bulbs came,

[00:25:43] Uh,

[00:25:44] in a, in a case, and, uh, one of the attendants decided that he would test them to see whether they were all alright.

[00:25:54] So

[00:25:54] he fired one.

[00:25:57] and 50 flashbulbs, because

[00:26:01] they had to be in contact with each other. If they were separate, it didn't work, but when you put them side by side, they were sympathetic.

[00:26:11] Paul: What

[00:26:11] happens? 

[00:26:13] Stuart: Well, the whole lot 

[00:26:14] went 

[00:26:14] off. A whole box full of, um, flashbulbs, and they weren't cheap at that time. 

[00:26:22] So 

[00:26:23] really, 

[00:26:23] that was, that was the basic equipment which we used to

[00:26:29] use.

[00:26:31] And

[00:26:32] it was all,

[00:26:33] it

[00:26:34] was all, uh, 8x6.

[00:26:37] Sometimes it was 10x8.

[00:26:41] The, uh, the railway engines, which we used to photograph for the Hunsley's Engine Company

[00:26:47] and hudderswell Clark's in Leeds, we always used to use 10x8 for those. Now it was interesting there because we used to have a particular date for going to photograph them. And

[00:27:04] they were all finished up in black, white and grey paint. Because that served the cost of retouching the finished print.

[00:27:15] There was very little photography done at that time. Apart from views and so forth. But anything that meant a machine, a lathe the, or whatever, it always had to go to the process retoucher who airbrushed the reflections or put one or two, put a shadow in or whatever it is. It was a highly skilled, uh, process. Uh, process, retoucher with white lines and so forth. But the interesting thing about these two railway engine companies was. that they only painted them on one side, the side that was being photographed.

[00:27:59] Paul: And

[00:28:01] Stuart: we used to go back to the studio, develop them straight away, yes, the negatives are alright, as soon as that happened, then they would strip all the black, white, and grey paint off and finish up in the customer's required, required colours.

[00:28:23] Paul: Wow.

[00:28:25] So, so the bit that strikes me is retouching has been part of this art 

[00:28:30] Sean: a long time. Well, 

[00:28:33] Paul: I mean, think about

[00:28:33] it, right? Because we, there's a lot of debate about retouching and post production. That rages. Even now, but when you think about a manufacturer only painting one side of a train, they're painting it colours that repro well, and then it's being handed on to a retoucher, retouching's been going on for a very long time. 

[00:28:51] Stuart: Well of course, everything at that time was, was, um, retouched, and most portraits finish up with complexions like billiard balls. There were no shadows, etc. 

[00:29:03] Paul: haha, It's like nothing's changed! 

[00:29:07] Stuart: Indeed. Indeed, and, and when people speak now in condemnation of, oh well you can see the retouching and so forth, well the only thing that you have to do now is to make sure that it doesn't show. But, it was, really when Photoshop and the like came in on the scene, this was manna from heaven.

[00:29:32] Paul: Yeah.

[00:29:33] Stuart: Because it cut out the need to do the work on the actual print. To retouch transparencies was a rather different process altogether.

[00:29:48] And it was 

[00:29:49] Sean: difficult process to be

[00:29:50] Stuart: Oh yes, and very highly skilled. And the firm that I worked for, Giltrous Brothers, who were the photo engravers, they used to retouch twenty, twenty

[00:30:02] four, twenty glass plates. Whereby, when you talk about printing today, and I think the, uh, top of the range, uh, Epson, Uh, printer works in, uh, we're printing 11 colors, but the, limited edition photolitho, uh, illustrations were, uh, certainly on, on 13 colors

[00:30:36] And from 13 separate plates. All of which were retouched.

[00:30:42] Paul: So

[00:30:42] the plates were retouched separately? 

[00:30:45] Stuart: correct? 

[00:30:45] Oh yes. 

[00:30:46] Paul: Wow.

[00:30:48] Stuart: So

[00:30:48] Paul: each of these plates is a black and

[00:30:49] white plate that's going to take one color ink?

[00:30:52] Sean: Correct. I understood the

[00:30:52] Paul: the process right?

[00:30:53] Sean: Yeah. 

[00:30:54] Stuart: process, right? Retouches were earning more than photographers at any time. 

[00:31:01] Sean: It's most interesting to hear this, Stuart, because you come into my era when I was learning photography and the discipline of the transparency, the 4x5 and 8 inch transparency, and of course there, retouching was an anathema because if we retouched the transparency, we started to lose some quality.

[00:31:17] Stuart: Yes. we to, it was a period of photography, I think, more than ever, when we had to get everything right in the camera because the client demanded the transparency. Whereas the processes you were using enabled this retouching method, which is very, very interesting.

[00:31:29] There are certain elements, as you well know, with your, even with your skills, whereby there are elements which cannot be lit out or exposed out or 

[00:31:43] whatever. And there has to be some artwork, or whatever you call it, retouching done. And at the end of the day, most of the photography which, which I was taking and involved with, was going to be reproduced. And so if it was retouched at source, before it got to the retouchers on the reproduction, uh, side.

[00:32:11] of the plate making, then that was, it was as we wanted it rather than what they thought it should be. 

[00:32:20] Paul: As ever photographers being control freaks. 

[00:32:24] Stuart: Well, after something like two to three years at Picards, by which time I got a fair amount of idea of what's going on. 

[00:32:37] Um, I decided that, um, I ought to seek pastures new and became a staff photographer for the 600 Group Of Companies just on the west side of Leeds. And there I photographed secondhand machinery, which they used to recondition and I photographed the, lathes and milling machines, drilling machines and that sort of thing, and they were then printed on and they, all these were taken on the half plate camera, which is half the size of a whole plate camera, obviously, um, and, um. they were made on 6x4 glossy prints, and these were distributed by the appropriate department to potential buyers. And I was there for three and a half years. But I'd got to the stage where I'd photographed everything that didn't move, and I was becoming rather dissatisfied with life. So I 

[00:33:49] Paul: Do you mind if I ask how old are you at this point?

[00:33:53] Stuart: this point? Well, let me see, I would be about, twenty, twenty four, twenty, what, twenty five. Right. Twenty five, six. 

[00:34:03] Paul: Right.

[00:34:04] Stuart: I was dissatisfied because I didn't think I was getting anywhere.

[00:34:09] Sean: So you were, you were ambitious, really, to take your photography on to another level and, and have more control, would you say, over what you were doing

[00:34:16] Stuart: you could say that, yes. just say to work for yourself, Stuart? 

[00:34:20] Sean: The Thing is that the, the company that I worked for. was part of the A. H. Leach corporate, uh, company at Brighouse, which was, uh, a very big organization with studios in Cambridge, Manchester, Glasgow. Um, and the prospects of moving to any one of those places was stalemate because they were well staffed was no flexibility for moving, and so I thought, well the only way to see whether I am a capable photographer was to make it on my own, see if I could make it on my own. And in fact started the business in some premises now occupied by the local library. down at the bottom end of the village.

[00:35:19] Stuart: But this was going on for some time, two or three years, and then the question of getting married.

[00:35:27] came into the reckoning, and this house in which we're sitting now became available, and very suitable because the front room lounge in which we now sit became my portrait studio.

[00:35:46] And across the top of the window, which is facing opposite you, was a bank of Kodak, um, lighting with five, four 500 watt lamps in each for general illumination.

[00:36:04] And So then I had a spotlight which is, was behind you for lighting the hair and then a fill in light on this side. And by this time, we'd moved on to two and a quarter square, real film cameras, 12 on 120.

[00:36:22] I hadn't really at that stage got into, back into the industrial scene because I was doing social photography, weddings and portraits, to build up a reserve of capital to move on to buying more advanced equipment.

[00:36:44] And the changes at that time were considerable. 5x4 were on the, on the fringe. At the time that I'm speaking of, German 9x12 plate cameras were still being used for press photography. And there they were, on the touchline at Heddingley, these, the local press photographers, with box of 9x12 single shot plates freezing to death, and um, and that's it, one off shots.

[00:37:26] But I missed the point earlier on, I think, of saying that uh, every shot had to count. And, over the years, that has influenced me considerably, because I've always made sure that everything was right before I took the exposure.

[00:37:48] And whatever the, whatever the occasion was, whether it was an industrial scene or a social scene, you look at the subject before you, to begin with, and then start looking round and see what's happening in the background. Because, if you do that, it saves retouching, and that's an absolute classical instance of today, where people, when Photoshop came, what about so and so?

[00:38:22] Oh, don't bother about that, I'll take it out. I can take it out in Photoshop, and I've heard speakers come to the Institute and talk about, Oh, I do this and do that, and I've said, well, how long does it take you to do that? Oh, well, a couple of hours or so, like that. It could have all been addressed in the taking, and that would have been eliminated.

[00:38:51] And when you talk about 2 or 3 hours retouching, well how much do you charge for, oh well I'll throw it all in.

[00:39:00] And the number of people who I've heard say that, oh well I'll just include it. I think they've got a bit wise to it now because Uh, any extramural activities are chargeable by the hour, and, uh, and it's certainly in need of that, but what I would say to any in, up and coming photographer, they need to sure of what it is that they're taking to avoid having to retouch it afterwards, albeit that in today's terms,

[00:39:40] With the relaxation of dress and disciplines and so forth, Um, I don't think it quite matters. And so, I think as far as today is concerned, I would find it difficult to go back to being a photographer in today's terms. Because, I can sit in a restaurant or in a room, somebody's room or whatever, and I'm looking at the, the vertical lines of the structure to, to see whether that line lines up with that, and it's surprising how often I can see lines that are out, even buildings.

[00:40:27] I could see buildings that, that were not, um, vertical. completely vertical and line up with the I sit there looking at the streets and doors and windows and it's very, it's very difficult to get out of that discipline into the much more free and relaxed attitude towards photography today.

[00:40:56] I don't know whether I, whether you would agree with that or not.

[00:41:00] Sean: Stuart, I would agree with what you're saying and it's like the photographer's eye, your whole life has been trained by your eye viewing scenes and viewing situations and it's quite impossible to turn that off really.

[00:41:10] That's part of you and how you see things, so no, I couldn't agree with you more. So Stuart, tell me, you obviously, the room we're in now was your studio, and you're in here, you're now married, you're doing more social photography, as you said, and obviously starting to make money. Where did the business go from there?

[00:41:29] What was your sort of next stage really? Because I believe you had another studio then in the village, is that correct? 

[00:41:35] Stuart: The children grew up and we were running out of room space,

[00:41:40] So an opportunity came in the main street down the road to take over a building, um, which I was able to use the ground floor and turn it into a studio, a reception studio and darkroom. And, uh, during that time, I was doing, um, mainly social photography, but also, I had got associated with the local newspaper which circulated in this area, and I virtually, without being on the strength, I virtually became the staff photographer for the whole of the circulation area.

[00:42:32] So on a Saturday in the summer, it was not unknown for me to do perhaps 11 cover 11 eventualities such as garden parties, a flower show, etc. and also fit in a complete wedding. So,

[00:43:00] Paul: So, 

[00:43:00] Stuart: so

[00:43:01] my time, my, my mind used to work like a, like

[00:43:07] a clock, uh, a precision clock, because it was, it was timed to the nth degree. Um, what time is the, uh, what time is the wedding? How long will the service be? Where's the reception? And I had a mental, uh, mental, uh, memo of the distance from here to there, and the length of time it takes to get from, from there to there.

[00:43:36] And, as far as the, as the newspaper is concerned, I tried to take a different picture. at each occasion, so that we don't want the same picture of women serving tea, uh, for the WI, the church of this and that and the other. Um, I tried to make a different picture. So that training and experience fitted me in good stead for when the industrial scene tailed off.

[00:44:15] Sean: I've just, uh, I've just, um, picked a photograph up here.

[00:44:18] Stuart's got quite a number of his photographs in the room with us here. It's a very nice PR, press type shot here of Harry Ramsden's Fish and Chips shop, and it's got a very 1980s mobile phone and the world famous in this part of the world, Nora Batty which some of you may know from a famous last of the summer wine tv show and i think this is to do with the flotation of Harry Ramsden because it became quite a successful company didn't it so talk a little bit about this photograph Stuart it's very captivating and i think very very well executed

[00:44:50] Stuart: Well, the story as you've already identified, I'm surprised that you have, because that was when they went public. And, uh, the, story was the Harry Ramsden fish restaurant, which, it was the center of all activities, just on the outskirts of Leeds, and they, as you said, they got Nora Batty there, who was a very leading personality at the time, and, of course, telephones, you can see the size of that, that mobile telephone, which is about the size of a half of a brick. Um, this was the, um, the story. And the essential thing was to locate the seed of the picture with the name of the, the company. across the top of the, the print or the format.

[00:45:46] Sean: And if I could just butt in there Stuart just to say sorry to do this but I think it's important to get this across that I've just picked this image up and the story has come straight across to me. We've got the mobile phone. You've got the Financial Times, which is holding the fish and chips. You've got the sort of banker type chap behind her.

[00:46:02] It just shows the skill that's gone into that picture, that an image is telling that story to me all these years later. Because I presume this photograph is 30 or 40 years old, Stuart. Am I correct there? 

[00:46:12] Stuart: It's quite a long time. And the essential thing about that picture, uh, Sean, is that however much a sub editor chops it down. There was always be something of the story there, because the nearest or the furthest down that they could chop it would be across the top of the bloke's head, but it would still say Harry on the left hand side.

[00:46:42] And, and, that was the, the art of, at that time, of getting the story across for public relations. Include the company's name or the brand in the background somewhere so that it had to be seen and it couldn't be taken out. 

[00:47:03] Paul: I ask you a question? Have you always loved being a

[00:47:06] Stuart: being a photographer? Oh, absolutely. 

[00:47:09] I wouldn't do anything else. Um, had a very enjoyable life in every aspect of it. And I'll tell you one thing about it, and Sean will agree with me on this. Photography, photographers are in a very privileged position, and they don't realize how much so. Because so often, they are in, at the ground floor of activity. A conference, a confidential conference projecting the aims of the company.

[00:47:46] I was in a company when I was in the conference actually, when the whole of the regional bank managers were in a conference at Harrogate, and they were told then, that we were going to dispose of the buildings, our assets, and I photographed several banks which were up for sale and they were simply being sold off. The managers didn't know. What's the photograph for? Oh, it's just for the estate. I knew what they were, why they were selling it. It was going on the market.

[00:48:25] You know all these little convenience grocery shops and so on, on filling stations, I was in the conference there for all the ESSO managers in the region, when the the project was put to them that we're going to put these little kiosks, or whatever it is, and, and, and there I was. Um, and we were privy to information that was light years ahead of the actual official announcement.

[00:48:59] Paul: Yeah.

[00:48:59] Stuart: Metahall, for instance, um, I was in the conference when they were talking about what their footprint was needed to be to make that viable. And there are several instances such as that. And you do get it to a more personal level, where we've got, uh, injuries, personal injuries to photograph.

[00:49:26] Oh well, what about Snow?

[00:49:29] Well,

[00:49:29] And you just can't get involved with passing that or repeating that information.

[00:49:35] Paul: Yeah.

[00:49:36] Stuart: It's confidential. And as I said, photographers are so often right in the heart of things. And I'm sure, Sean, that in today's terms, you'll be more exposed to it than I was with them.

[00:49:51] Sean: Well, very much so Stuart.

[00:49:52] Very much so. Yeah. I mean, it's, I can't tell you how many NDAs I've signed in my career, so, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. 

[00:50:00] So Stuart, so you've now got the studio, the, the biggest studio now on in the, in the, in the village here. And you're obviously doing your social, your weddings, you're obviously doing a lot of PR.

[00:50:11] Did you start to do, did the industrial photography come back a little bit more as well?

[00:50:15] Stuart: Yes But I was, I was extremely fortunate and the odd thing about it was that the connection came through the, uh, the work of the local paper because three miles from here was the control room for the Central Electricity Generating Board and they were having an open night and the local paper was invited to to cover the, the event. So I went along and took a few photographs of whatever was going on and had a bit of a look around the place and subsequently then I was approached by their, their public relations department for the northeast region. Would I take a photograph of something else? 

[00:51:13] From that stemmed the work, which really became the mainstay of my activities with the Central Electricity Generating Board.

[00:51:26] Again, I wasn't on the staff, but I was vir, virtually became the staff photographer for the Northeast Region. And the amazing thing is that here I was, photographing power stations, the grand openings of power stations, starting with Thorpe Marsh, which was the, down in Doncaster, which had two 400 megawatt sets, which were the f The Forerunner, they Thorpe Marsh was really the testbed for the, um, the 400 megawatt stations which followed.

[00:52:13] And there again, this was being in on the ground floor whenever there was a fault down there or whatever. or a problem, um, I was called in to, to, to take the photographs. 

[00:52:27] Sean: So

[00:52:28] Stuart, would you say that, um, he's very interesting listening to this about how your business built. Would you say that networking was a great part of building your business?

[00:52:37] Stuart: Networking, well they call it networking now, and it's, it's contacts really. And I think, I'm sure that you'll agree that being in the right place at the right time, and that really applies to anything, the theatrical world, et cetera, and, not necessarily knowing the people, the right people, but getting on with them, and being able to mix with people, and behave in a way that people expect you to. So 

[00:53:10] Sean: Would you have any sort of advice or tips for a young photographer or somebodnew breaking into photography and how to. build a business? Have you anything to add there at all? 

[00:53:22] Stuart: I think that in today's terms, it is extremely difficult for photographers. And I'll tell you why, because I think that the opportunities which I just mentioned are remote, probably remote in the extreme. Social photography is something else, and the, the website, and all the various media opportunities, with which I am unfamiliar and have no knowledge of because I've not had the need to do it. But I am aware because I look at what people are doing. And that's another instance of success. Of keeping an eye on what other people are doing. If you admire anybody's particular work, then that sets the example and the criteria to work to. But as far as going back to contact is concerned, I have the distinct impression now that not only photography, but everything now stems from public Relations and I don't know whether you've noticed it or not, but if there's, if there are any problems, on the one hand, of people's behavior or their activities, or whatever it may be, adversely or favorably, and the promotion of brands and industries and business, it all seems to stem now very much from the agencies. 

[00:55:12] If you read question of the so and so company are going to introduce this product or

[00:55:22] service or whatever it is, or they've taken over a business. the

[00:55:27] statements attributed to the managing director or chief executive or accountant or whatever it is, right across the board, a great many of the people that are being quoted, I would suggest, are not capable of speaking and thinking the way that the statement appears in print. And it raises sometimes, a lot of suspicion as to just what is behind this thing. This business with the post office. It's full of it. And so the point that I'm making is that advertising agencies, that's another one, the advertising agencies are in direct contact with the, um, with the brand or the company.

[00:56:24] And so the opportunities of the photographers, in my judgment, are minimized because of the hold. that the advertising agencies have on the job. 

[00:56:43] And 

[00:56:43] they, 

[00:56:45] they will say who they want and who should be employed. They may think them best or otherwise. And it also then comes down to, rights, and I bet you are right in the thick of this, that, uh, you are the, the favorite bloke on the, on the block, and whilst ever that person is engaged in that company, your situation is secure. But suddenly, if he goes to pastures new, and they've already got their established photographers, as far as you're concerned, you've lost that company.

[00:57:28] Sean: Very 

[00:57:28] Stuart: company. 

[00:57:29] Sean: very true. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:57:30] Stuart: Is it true?

[00:57:31] Paul: But there's always opportunities with these things, I mean, in the end, there are more photographs being created today than ever historically, I think you're right about the structures of advertising agencies, though this isn't my world, when someone moves on, there's an opportunity, and there's always the opportunity to stay as well, there is risk, of course there's risk, but equally, you could be the guy he takes with you.

[00:57:54] So how do you make that happen?

[00:57:56] Sean: Well, I think it's very apt because I've had two or three key clients in my career that have moved numerous times, you know, seriously big companies and they've taken me with them, yeah. And not only that, in some cases, they've taken me to their new company. And it's gone well. They've then moved on to another company and taken me with them, but the company they've left still retains me.

[00:58:19] So there's a benefit that way. But I think it's really, I greatly believe in the, in the networking, keeping in touch with people, making an effort at all times. And I think, I know we've got today's digital world and there's lots of advantages to that, but also personal contact I think is still really, really important.

[00:58:38] Relationships and personal contact.

[00:58:40] Stuart: What you are saying is, is correct. And I remember an uncle of mine who was a milkman and, had a, a big dairy, and he once said to my mum, oh, well, it's so and so, he's come again, a rep has come. It's been three times, so really it deserves an order.

[00:59:03] There's a 

[00:59:04] lot 

[00:59:05] Paul: in

[00:59:05] Stuart: a lot in

[00:59:06] truth in that, backs and it backs up what you were just saying, of keeping in contact, and, of course as far as advertising is concerned, or mail shots. the first one they take no notice of and throw away. The second one, oh well, there's another one from this so and so. The third one, it is usually reckoned that the person will be activated by that And so, as you said, keeping in contact is very important.

[00:59:42] But I'm bound to say that breaking in a lot of it is by accident, but certainly the persistence of contact is very important.

[00:59:56] And when you consider, you see, over the years we have thought of Only the Institute, or I have, and I've done, I've put a lot of time and work into it, as other people have, without which we might have been a lot more better off or a lot wealthier than we in fact are.

[01:00:20] Sean: Stuart, did, did, when we say the institute, it's the British Institute Professional Photography we're talking about here. And I, I'm a member too, and that's how I met Stuart through the institute. Through your long career as a photographer, how important did you find the, The Institute and the ability to mix and talk and, and, and work, you know, get information from other photographers, I suppose.

[01:00:41] How important did you find that 

[01:00:44] Stuart: Photographers, um, are, as you know, very, very much individualists. they work a lot on their own, and when you consider that there are probably 7 or 10, 000 practicing photographers in this country, and so few of them belong to anything. 

[01:01:10] It makes you wonder how all those people survive. but, it really comes back to, to, uh, what we were saying earlier, of contact, those people must be in contact with other people.

[01:01:29] Their reputation goes before them, obviously, and when you consider the situation with the Royals, for instance, who, from time to time, have official photographs taken, um, by names that I've never heard of, where you would perhaps expect that they are members of the, this organization, the Royal Photographic Society, as a case in point. Um, these people are not members of them and so how they I'm not talking about the Litchfields, I'm talking about the other people who officially, officially photograph, uh, in recent times, the, um, William and Kate's family, the, their birthday or whatever anniversary it was. So, those people, um, are plowing their own furrow.

[01:02:33] But going back to the the meaning of the institute, whereby people are individual, the opportunity over the past years was for all these individuals to rub shoulders with each other and the networking that went on then. For instance, you go to a meeting and you're chatting away, and a couple of blokes have a common, common interest, uh, uh, or they're equal practitioners, but suddenly, one of them comes up with a problem that he can't answer, and so he's able to phone this guy in Nottingham, or wherever, because he is not in competition down the street. He can't ask the guy down the street how to tackle the question, but the man in Nottingham will willingly bare his soul for you, and keeping in contact with, um, with other people to solve problems where they have them is incredibly useful, in my judgment. 

 

NOTE: to see the rest of the transcript, head over to https://masteringportraitphotography.com (it exceed the normal limit for podcast texts!)

In this episode, I get to very briefly chat with Louis Wahl, CEO of WEX Photo Video. Turns out he is a really nice guy (and with luck, I'll get to chat to him in a full-length interview at some point in the future.) It's the great thing about the photography show - I get to meet loads of people!

As well as the short chat, the episode is primarily a response to an email I received from 'Steve' asking what first strobe he should choose.  Having sat and pieced together an answer, I thought it would be useful to make a podcast out of the answer.  I guess you can be the judge of that!

Cheers
P.

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If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to Mastering Portrait Photography, for more articles and videos about this beautiful industry. You can also read a full transcript of this episode.

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If there are any topics, you would like to hear, have questions we could answer or would like to come and be interviewed on the podcast, please contact me at paul@paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk. 

 

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Transcript

[00:00:00] My name is Lewis Wall, and I'm the CEO of Wexphoto Video. Okay. So maybe this needs just a little explanation at the photography show last week, which was a blast. I took my little handheld recorder and just grabbed a few people as I wanted ran the show. And I had a vision of creating one big podcast episode where multiple photographers could answer the same question.

[00:00:25] Just questions about the industry, how they felt and why they were, where they're at the show. But when I played them back for a couple of reasons, I didn't think that that was going to work mostly. And you'll hear this in this little snippet. I get quite excited and an hour of that. Well, nobody needs that in their life.

[00:00:42] So instead I'm going to sprinkle these little clips. Through some upcoming podcasts just for interest. And so you can hear the views. I have some really interesting people in our industry.

[00:00:53] And I started with this guy. Now I bumped into him. And by accident. I was buying a memory card for the recorder. Actually. I needed additional memory card. And so I went and queued at warehouse express, WEX photo and video. Standing there quietly in the queue and the next chapter at the till waved his arm at me, I went over and while I was there, I noticed that it was Louis. It said on his badge CEO. Of WEX photo video. And do you know what I thought I chance, my arm and see if he would be willing to do a short interview. Well, you couldn't have met a nicer guy. And he was very willing to give me a few, a little bit of a viewpoint. And so we grabbed just five minutes and this is that interview.

[00:01:33] And I start the conversation with why. Do you come to the photography show? This is where our customers are, uh, and they expect to get the service that we provide to them all the time in the stores, and we provide to them online, as well as our institutional customers, a lot of our professional customers, so, yeah, I mean, this has got to be the place to be.

[00:01:52] Where else wouldn't you be at a time like this? This is a brilliant place for us to meet our customers. And, of course, I have to ask you, well, I guess it's an obvious question, but you're a supplier to this incredible industry. Why do you love the photography industry so much? Well, the one thing is that I don't come from a photographic background myself.

[00:02:10] I actually come from a kind of a radio television production background. But it's all about the intrinsic desire that our customers have to accomplish something. There's an artistic need, so We've got a mission, which is to help our customers get the perfect shot every time and anytime. People come to us not to buy a black box with a camera in it.

[00:02:31] They come to us because they've got a problem, and that's brilliant. So they've got a project, they've got a creative spark, they want to achieve something. And all of the people who work with us, they're all photographers as well. So they've all started with some kind of imaging or background, a creative background.

[00:02:46] My last question, this is just a very short set of snippets, but my last question is if you could change just one thing about this beautiful industry of ours, what would it be? That's a tough one. I wouldn't necessarily say it was a perfect industry. I wouldn't say it was problematic.

[00:03:02] It's, what would I change? I'd probably make it a bit easier for us to understand how people work. Product is flowing through from the developers, the people who are originally designing it all the way through the end user. 'cause that's often a very translucent, it's almost opaque, so you don't quite understand what's happening there.

[00:03:21] Sometimes the big brands will tell you a little bit more about where their thinking is, how they want to develop their technology. But I think what happens is you get a lot of customers who they want to see that they actually wanna see that where, where the technology's going. Because again, they've got these objectives and often it.

[00:03:37] You know, it's kind of cased in a little bit of secrecy. I kind of understand that. If you're developing technology, you want to protect it. You want to protect your intellectual property. But that's probably the only thing I would say that's a little bit problematic, yeah? I mean, we went through such a long period of difficulty in terms of production supply.

[00:03:56] People were very difficult to find stuff. Um, we're kind of through that now. We can get pretty much what we need. Um, but, uh, you kind of feel this, probably me as not a terribly, um, technologically, uh, kind of genius sort of person. You kind of, well, where does it go next? And I think a lot of people kind of think in that way too.

[00:04:15] They want to compete, they want to, they want to grow, they want to develop. So, yeah, I'd say that's probably one area. It's like, what does it look like? You know, what does the future look like? That's probably one question everybody's got. What does the future look like? It's funny, in the last episode I did, one of my laments was, I wish more of the kit was designed with the photographers that are going to use it in mind, as opposed to the guys developing it with their, you know, various bits of interfaces and the way the software, it's all software driven now, everything is software.

[00:04:44] Um, and I wish there were more people who are photographers involved in the design phase. But listen, what an absolute pleasure, thank you both for your good service, I've just bought, A very small memory card from you, but over the years, I've spent many thousands with you, but thank you for it. It's my pleasure.

[00:04:59] Thank you so much. So, like I said, you can hear me getting very excited, but what a thoroughly decent guy and of course, warehouse express WEX photo video. Is one of those bastions of the industry. It's huge. And it's ultra reliable. I've bought a ton of kit. From them over the years and I'm sure I will continue to do so.

[00:05:19] And it was a real pleasure to meet Louis a genuinely nice guy. At least he was in the few minutes I got to chat to him. And hopefully I did leave with a seed that I'll go over and maybe get a chance to record a full length interview with him. Cause I think the insights. From some of our trade suppliers. Would be fascinating for all of us because they've seen the trends and they've got the data on it.

[00:05:41] Whereas each of us. Our, in our little silos. So one after the other, I will introduce these little interviews into each of the upcoming podcasts. I'm Paul. And this is the mastering portrait photography podcast.

[00:05:56] So hello. One and all, I hope you well on this, I see quite bright and sunny Sunday evening. It's not particularly warm, but at least for a moment, it isn't. raining yesterday, dance the showers quite a bit. It was a good day yesterday. I've had a good week, lots and lots going on. As you can imagine, we had a training workshop here on Monday, which was an absolute blast.

[00:06:33] It was so much fun. We called it a mastering extraordinary to sorry, mastery can't even get my own titles right. Mastering Ordinary To Extraordinary Studio Photography, which is basically about shooting in reasonably confined spaces.

[00:06:47] And the guys that came in the workshop with just brilliant. We laughed all day the models big shout out to Kinga and to Libby who were brilliant. The two guys who modeled for us and the whole thing about having a good time, enjoying being creative learning as we go Was just the whole, the whole workshop the whole day. It was fantastic.

[00:07:09] So thank you to everyone who came. Also this week. I had two shoots yesterday. You forgive me for telling this story. It was that. It was a good day. Lovely clients, but I did that thing that I do so often, which is to get people's names muddled. And this is yet another one of those extreme examples. Sophie and Matt were the couple and Bertie was their dog. So as we're heading out into the garden to take some pictures in daylight, I'm just double checking their names.

[00:07:38] I've got, my phone it's got the appointment on it. I'm just very quickly scanning it to make sure I've got everything I need. It's Sophie and Matt, Sophie and Matt, Sophie and Matt. I've literally, as I put my phone in my pocket. I turned to them and say, right, so Alice and Sam, what are we going to do? And the two of them just look at me. Are you absolutely out of your mind? And the minute they looked at me, I knew I'd got it wrong.

[00:08:05] How, how, how can your brain ditch what you've just been reading. I mean, literally, as I said, it. It was seconds after I'd read it. The only name I remembered it was Bertie the dog. It was just, oh, come on. Anyway. Saturday was interesting in as much as, although we've had the alien crumb kit in now for a week or so, saturday was the first day when I've had two full shoots going at my normal pace.

[00:08:34] But with all of this new equipment on the upside, let's talk about the upside. The light that they give off is beautiful. And I remember now why I originally chose Elinchrom and why, even when I was using Profoto kit, I would still put Elinchrom modifiers back in to the mix. The light we're getting is just beautiful.

[00:08:55] And it, it seems to play really well in our studio. Now, every studio is different. Every photographer's tastes and color profiles, are different. For me, for what I do in the space. I do it, there was a proper magic in the studio and it was, it's hard to describe, but I actually felt quite emotional. That said none of the kids did what I expected to when I expected it. One light turned itself off, eventually found the off timer.

[00:09:27] There's a little timer in the settings. So I turned the two backlights off cause I needed to turn the two back lights off, which is fine. But when I powdered them back up again, they wouldn't register on the controller. The controller would trigger them. But it wouldn't read them.

[00:09:40] So I had no idea. I. I've got literally thousands of pounds worth of kit in the studio and I'm doing what I used to do, which is to walk up to them and turn the dials on the back. Talk about old school. Maybe just, maybe I need to spend the day with the manual because I'm sure none of this is to do with the kit.

[00:10:00] It's all to do with the operator. Again, thank you for putting up with the sound quality on that interview. I've got a load of those coming. It was a lot of fun. To do it and a huge amount of fun, lots of questions, or the same questions to lots of people. And there are some really quite interesting insights in there, but today's podcast.

[00:10:19] I was going to talk about something different, but I had this email. That came in during the week and it just simply says the following.

[00:10:26] Hi, Paul. I have just listened to the latest podcast. Congratulations on becoming an Elinchrom ambassador. I enjoyed hearing the story of you buying your first strobe and how it has led to you becoming a brand ambassador all these years later. I am probably in a very similar situation to where you were in 2003 i.e. Just thinking of buying my first strobe and I wondered which light you would recommend now. I've been looking at the Godox AD200 as I'm on a limited budget, but we'd love to hear your thoughts.

[00:10:57] So there you go. Nice email from Steve and in the process of sitting and tapping a pencil on my teeth as I do. I have actually emailed him back and so this is in some senses a transcript of that email, but I thought it'd be an interesting podcast too. Chew on why you choose the kit. You do. So obviously when I'm going back to someone who asks a question like that, and we get these kinds of questions all the time, what camera, what lighting, what software. In the end. You have to make these decisions and they're all arbitrary, but you live with them for quite a long time.

[00:11:33] So how would I go about today, choosing my first strobe? So I have to caveat all of this conversation, as you now know. With the fact that as a brand ambassador for it puts me in an interesting position. Of course, I want to recommend nothing but 'Chroms. Why would I do anything else? But of course, That doesn't suit everybody.

[00:11:57] The budgets don't suit everybody. And even in my bag, my camera bag right now. I have a Nikon SB800. I have two Godox V1's. And coincidentally, two Godox AD200's. Because they're small, they do their job. The SB800 is then there because occasionally I want to have on-camera flash. Nikon, well, it plays better with Nikon the than it does with Godox.

[00:12:21] So I've got that in there. Um, permanently with it's AA batteries, for those moments when I want to do an on-camera flash very often a direct flash, old school photo journalist style. Whether I'm doing a wedding or without doing something a little bit more commercial either way, but it's a very versatile rig.

[00:12:38] And I, at the moment, I don't have an answer to how I'm going to change that. To step a little bit more into line with the Elinchroms. Now don't get me wrong at all. It was a proper emotional moment when I fired up the 'Chroms. Uh, for the first time in an, in anger, I suppose, as the expression, for two paying clients, as opposed to doing junior workshop. We're in a workshop, you have time to think.

[00:13:01] So I have time to reset. I have time, to adapt when I'm working with a client, of course, it's quick fire. I had a two year old and a four year old in in the afternoon. And I had a dog in the morning, the knee, none of these are patient. You don't have time. So actually working them was app was brilliant, even if I'll be honest, I haven't quite got my arms around it.

[00:13:24] So to answer the question, the AD200 is a really good light. So instead of saying, here's what, here's the right answer. Here's the kit you want? I posed some questions and here's the question list I went back to Steve with for him to answer.

[00:13:41] Firstly, and most importantly, what is your budget? And then add 25%, possibly 50%. cause no matter what you think you needed, you're going to need more, whether it's spare batteries, whether it's modifiers to put on the front, whether it's a bracket, that'll put it onto a normal light stand, whatever it may be. You're going to need to add that on the AD200's very good, they're a little bit fiddly. But they are exceptionally. Good for what they do.

[00:14:04] And even if, and even, sorry, not with, when I'm out there using my Elinchroms, I am sure that the AD200's will never be far away for little bits of fill light or effects lighting, when I need it.

[00:14:16] Do the triggers. This is an important one about studio lighting in particular off-camera flashlight ING. Do the triggers for that system feel right to you? All too often, the bit that is missing from any money fractures lineup is the trigger. They're, they're made, they do their job, but they're not user-friendly.

[00:14:34] And I have to say, even after however many years I was using the Profoto. synchro Air TTL. It was never my favorite trigger. I get frustrated with Godox as well is nine times out of 10 when I'm using a strobe, I'm using it in the dark. So what's the one thing I want to be lit up.

[00:14:51] It's the buttons on the triggers. I. I know what I'm doing is really, I don't get how for a device that by definition, I'm going to use when the light levels are low. It really is difficult to use in low light levels. I just, yeah, just one of those things and it comes back a little bit. To what Lewis was saying about having the designers of these systems a little bit more transparent.

[00:15:14] I'd love to have more designers, more designer input. Sorry, more photographers input into the design processes of some of this kit. Because actually we use it. We know where its weaknesses are. We know what is frustrating when we're down there in the dirt. Trying to get things sorted.

[00:15:30] Next question.

[00:15:31] What adapters will you need to get a modifier onto the light or will you always use a bare head flash? I asked this because if you're using an AD200 nothing fits it until he put a modifier, a bracket on it that will take. Whether it's Elinchrom, whether it's Profoto, whether it's Godox themselves. Any S- type for instance, an S- type modifier on to the front, but you are going to have to buy some additional brackets. To make that possible.

[00:15:59] Are you going to expand the system?

[00:16:01] So Steve's email asked. W I'm buying or stated I'm buying my first strobe. What would you recommend? And part of the puzzle is what are you going to do in the future? Is this just one strobe, in which case an AD200 is perfectly fine. Is it going to be part of a set and will it all be the same style? They're big for speed lights, but they're little for strobes AD200's of, I don't know if you've seen them. They sort of look. Sort of rectangular, like, I dunno. Couple of bars of chocolate. taped together. They're not very big. They're very rectangular and they're very good.

[00:16:37] But will you always stay with this manufacturer? Are you going to buy into their system? Will you have a Godox controller? And then you'll add Godox studio lights Godox led lights Godox, more Speedlights what are you going to do? Because if you're going to stick with a system. Start with the system that ultimately you want to use.

[00:16:57] What modifiers ultimately do you want to use?

[00:17:00] Will it be umbrellas or boxes? Are they readily available and affordable. Of course, anything that clips onto an S type adapter, that's the old Bowens adapter, is really relatively speaking available and it's going to be not too expensive, because the manufacturers like good docs and picks was it picks a pro and a few of the others.

[00:17:20] They're all adult. Adapting and adopting the S type. And it means you get access to really good quality budget kit. To bolt onto the front. Or, you know, like me, are you fascinated with really beautiful light? And it's not that those modifies don't create beautiful light, but for me, just using a kit, I want to feel good about it. So I've stayed. I've had, I've stayed pretty much with Elinchrom, um, throughout, even though. I was using pro photo strobes.

[00:17:47] I was still using my old Elinchrom modifiers because they just lovely. Um, Is it. An additional question who inspires you? Maybe that's an obtuse question. But it's not a bad shout to have a look around. Photographers whose work you really like. And then it doesn't take long to go through their social feeds and figure out what they use.

[00:18:10] Because if there's a look you're trying to create, there's a lighting quality it's going to try and create. I mean, in the end, you'll form your own lighting, your own designs, your own style. And that's absolutely right. But more often than not, when you're starting out you're using ideas from other people, you're looking at social feeds, you're looking at websites, you're looking in magazines as much as magazines. It's still a thing.

[00:18:35] And you, you, the curiosity is peaked when you see a picture, you really like, and you're thinking, okay, how did they do that? It's never a bad idea to have a look at the kit they've used. And for us here in the studio, for instance, I will constantly look at images and try and figure out what lighting they've used.

[00:18:52] But of course then actually our studio isn't that big, so I have to figure out a way round that. The good news is if you can figure out a way around it, you can use pretty much any kit. The bad news is there are some things I can't do. There's some lighting patterns. I simply don't have the space typically overhead to be able to do. But either way go and have a look at the people you really, really admire and are inspired by and have a look at their kit and see if that's something that might feed in to the conversation.

[00:19:21] This is one of those techie dweeby things, but what is the battery life? And are you going to exceed it? And by battery life, I don't mean it, the total lifespan of the battery, I mean, is it going to go flat at the moment you really want to take a photograph and as such. How much are the spare batteries.

[00:19:38] Some of these manufacturers that, you know, in additional batteries, 500, 600, 700 quid. And it's fine if you've got the money. But. You know, maybe that's just too much. Or would you, for instance, if you're only going to work in a studio, will mains power do you? Now here at the studio, I've taken a view to move away from mains, but for no, not because I want to take the strobes out on location necessarily, but because we have children running around, we have dogs running around and having mains cables is not ideal.

[00:20:10] My Profoto B1's We're brilliant for that could keep them out of the way the kids, the tripods are all weighted down. There's no cables. The only downside is if I use the modeling lights, batteries are going to go flat pretty quickly. So have a look at the batteries and what strategy you're going to have for keeping things charged up during a day of shooting.

[00:20:29] And then the final one I think was do you need modeling lights? If you're like me a photographer that uses modeling lights as your guide, how are you going to do that with something like the AD200 and although the manufacturer Godox do claim that it has a modeling light on it, it's really small.

[00:20:45] It's not going to do you an all flood a good it's. Okay. If you're in a really dark space. And you just need to see what you're doing. It does. Okay. But it's not great. In my opinion from that, but if you don't need it, then that's absolutely, brilliant. So it's instead of answering really for Steve.

[00:21:03] I don't know what he was expecting: buy that one. that'll be fine. What could go wrong?

[00:21:07] I've opposed yet more questions. But I think this is how you choose your kit. And this goes across all types of kit. These are the types of questions. You need to ask yourself. And for me, I think the really important ones, the fundamental one. Is what is your budget?

[00:21:23] Because in the end, particularly if like me, you, when you're living from it, You have to show a return on that investment for every bit of kit you buy over its lifespan. What is your budget?

[00:21:36] The next thing you have to ask yourself is going to, is it going to do the job? I need it to do. Because as always, there's a thousand ways of doing everything. And every manufacturer will tell you their way is the right way.

[00:21:50] And every manufacturer is absolutely right. But what do you do? You got to pick one in the end.

[00:21:56] And that's the final question.

[00:22:00] Do you want to pick it up and do you want to use it? And that's the most important question of all when it comes to being creative. Because if you don't utterly love using the kit, it land. In a box and that is a proper waste of money. You have to buy the kit that you love and that makes you want to create images. That, that there's no getting around that because if you don't buy something that makes you smile and makes you want to pick up your camera and create a picture, then you'll never use it.

[00:22:31] And that really is, a waste of money.

[00:22:35] So on that happy note, this is a shorter episode. I'm hoping to go back to my weekly recordings, but we'll see how we go. So far so good. I hope the little interview snippet with Louis at the beginning, was interesting is only short, but I thought he had a really nice way about him and a really intriguing Viewpoint on the industry and it's always interesting to talk to these guys.

[00:22:55] As a thank you for him being recorded. I'm giving warehouse express a free plug. There's no arrangement here at all. I buy stuff from them. Much as I buy it from other suppliers too, but I really, I really rate warehouse expresses customer service. I have had. I'm sure if you troll around, you'll find people with different stories. But the story I have is they've always been exceptional. They've always delivered on time. They've always been good value. They are one of those companies where their customer service is rock solid and their stock levels also a pretty high. So if you want it, you can get it and you're going to get it when they say it will arrive.

[00:23:33] So you can't say much better than that. So on that happy note, thank you for listening. Thank you for getting into the end of this particular episode and as always, please do subscribe to the podcast, wherever it is that you get your podcasts. Please also leave us a review. Oh, I'm one of the main platforms.

[00:23:50] We love it when we see ratings and reviews on iTunes, because of course it is the biggest platform for podcasts of them all but wherever it is that you listen to your podcasts, please do leave us a review. Of course, if you ever have any questions, just like Steve did, please drop me a line.

[00:24:06] It's paul@paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk. That's paul@paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk. Um, I did mention the workshops we're running. We're ramping those up just at the moment, having a blast. It's so much fun. We've had the nicest models and more importantly, the nicest attendees on our workshops, they're very friendly.

[00:24:28] They're very funny. We have a really, just a good time laughing and taking or laughing and creating beautiful images. If you fancy one of our workshops, please head over to Paul Wilkinson photography and look for the coaching section or just Google paul Wilkinson photography workshops and you will land on them. Without a shadow of a doubt and head over to masteringportraitphotography.com, the spiritual home of this podcast. Which has a ton of resources for portrait photographers, whether it's about the creativity. The artistry, the enjoyment or the business of this wonderful art.

[00:25:02] And until next time when I should be presenting yet another snippet from the photography show. , thank you for listening and be kind to yourself. Take care.

In this interview with an old friend of ours, Simon Shirley, Toastmaster extraordinaire, we end up chatting about some of the simple things that make for a successful client-facing business for responding quickly, to getting a crowd onside (even when the odds are stacked against you!)

I mention a few workshops we'll be running, so here are the links:

Sunday 10th September 2023
The Guild Of Photographers Photohub Event
Oxford
Mastering Off-Camera Flash
https://photohubs.photoguild.co.uk/the-oxford-belfry-photohub/

Thursday 28th September 2023
The Guild Of Photographers Photohub Event
Peebles, Scotland
Mastering Available Light
https://photohubs.photoguild.co.uk/peebles-hydro-photohub-2/ 

 

Monday September 11, 2023
Full-Day Workshop At Our Studio near Oxford
Mastering Dog Photography From Shutter To Print
https://www.paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk/store/workshops/mastering-dog-photography-from-shutter-to-print-11th-september-2023/ 

 

Monday October 9, 2023
Full-Day Workshop At Our Studio near Oxford
Mastering Personal Branding Photography
https://www.paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk/store/workshops/mastering-personal-branding-photography-9th-october-2023/ 

 

Monday October 23, 2023
Full-Day Workshop At Our Studio near Oxford
Mastering Available Light
https://www.paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk/store/workshops/mastering-available-light-23rd-october-2023/ 

Enjoy!

Cheers
P.

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If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to Mastering Portrait Photography, for more articles and videos about this beautiful industry. You can also read a full transcript of this episode.

PLEASE also subscribe and leave us a review - we'd love to hear what you think!

If there are any topics, you would like to hear, have questions we could answer or would like to come and be interviewed on the podcast, please contact me at paul@paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk. 

This episode was recorded in a bar - possibly my favourite but, in contrast to our studio garden - not the quietest place to record audio.  But it makes me happy.  It was at this year’s incredible Societies of Photographers Convention in London where I spent the week judging and, well, generally feeling liberated from the previous two years of lockdown!

The interview is with one of the nicest guys in the industry - Ross Grieve - who is a street and portrait photographer as well as a videographer and Panasonic Ambassador.  He is also the host of the Talking Shot podcast - details of which he gives in the interview.

As always, I asked my interviewee to nominate a book that would make us smile and what a choice it is! The. Far Side, by Gary Larson is one of those books you just can't put down and can't help but feel better for reading.  Well, it is choc-full of funny cartoons after all!

Of course, being in a bar, we had bought ourselves a pint or two and we commence with the obligatory cheers…

During this episode, I also mention the workshops we've introduced here at our studio.  Details of these can be found here on our website.

Enjoy!

Cheers
P.

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If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to Mastering Portrait Photography, for more articles and videos about this beautiful industry. 

PLEASE also subscribe and leave us a review - we'd love to hear what you think!

If there are any topics, you would like to hear, have questions we could answer or would like to come and be interviewed on the podcast, please contact me at paul@paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk. 

After the last episode's interview with Sarah (my one-and-only!), this week, I am talking to another husband and wife team - Terrie and Colin Jones from The Societies Of Photographers.

I have been a very happy member of The Societies (when I joined it was still just The Society Of Wedding And Portrait Photographers - The SWPP) and so it so good to sit and chat - remotely I might add - with two of the nicest, hardest working people in the industry.

The Societies provides a range of benefits for photographers from mentoring, training, networking, promotions, negotiating discounts for members, magazine subscription, qualifications, competitions and so much more.

If you're interested in the benefits mentioned by Colin, head to this page and you can see the various links there.

As always, I ask my interviewees for a book nomination for our ever-growing library of things to fascinate photographers.  Terrie and Colin nominated Mastering Lighting & Flash Photography by our good friend, and incredible photographer, Richard Bradbury.

I loved this interview: two genuinely nice people, 60 minutes of chit chat and a lot of laughing.  

Enjoy!

Cheers
P.

 

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If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to Mastering Portrait Photography, where there are articles and videos about this beautiful industry. 

PLEASE also subscribe and leave us a review - we'd love to hear what you think!

If there are any topics, you would like to hear, have questions we could answer or would like to come and be interviewed on the podcast, please contact me at paul@paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk. 

If you'd like to use one of the other players out there, why not try Vurbl?  

Things are definitely looking up! Today, I had my vaccine, and I cannot help but think things are (gradually) appearing more positive.  At the end of the day, vaccines are the only way out of the pandemic, so it feels good to not only have done my bit but also to see what an amazing job the NHS and all those volunteers are doing getting it out there - and it's all being done with huge smiles and a ton of love.

Graphistudio is running a Live Lounge on the 6th / 7th March, so I thought it would be a great time to get Graphistudio UK's Managing Director into an interview to talk about the state of the industry, the future of social photography and to get excited about what's going to be broadcast during the event.

As always, I asked for a book to add to the library - and this one is an absolute stunner (it's smart, inciteful and tells exactly what it's like to be the wife of an MP.) It's called "The Diary Of An MPs Wife" by Sasha Swire and it's a great read, though a bit depressing if you think politics should all be above board and completely democratic!

Incidentally, this podcast was recorded with a video version as well - if you'd like to watch Jeremy and me chatting (and who wouldn't?!) then head over to Youtube to see the version.  Would love to know what you think and whether it's worth producing all of our podcasts like this.

 

Enjoy!

Cheers
P.

 

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If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to Mastering Portrait Photography, where there are articles and videos about this beautiful industry. 

PLEASE also subscribe and leave us a review - we'd love to hear what you think!

If there are any topics you would like to hear, have questions we could answer or would like to come and be interviewed on the podcast, please contact me at paul@paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk. 

If you'd like to use one of the other players out there, why not try Vurbl?  

In this interview, I get a chance to talk with the incredible photographer, Sanjay Jogia.   To quote from Canon's website (he is a Canon Ambassador):

Sanjay Jogia is one of the world's most decorated wedding photographers, with a clutch of awards from both the Society of Wedding and Portrait Photographers (SWPP) and Wedding & Portrait Photographers International (WPPI). The Briton is known for capturing a mix of posed and unposed images, all bursting with emotion and charm. He also shares his expertise, travelling the world to deliver lectures and workshops.

Serving the luxury wedding market, Sanjay's company, Eye Jogia Photography, specialises in wedding photography of the most demanding kind: destination weddings all over the world, and Indian weddings, which pose distinct challenges compared to other types of ceremony. "Indian weddings are more intense and much longer: a typical day can be 12 to 16 hours," says Sanjay. "There are many separate rituals on the day of the main ceremony, and all the days tend to be an onslaught of colour, energy, emotion, socialising and fun."

Well, that may be the official line but I know him as someone who I thoroughly enjoy judging with - his sharp attention to detail, the emotion and his humanity (he is always respectful of each and every image we assess) make him a pleasure to work alongside.

In this interview we talk about a wide range of topics though I had originally intended to talk about what we have learned through judging - it is still in there somewhere but there is much more besides! 

I talk about one particular image in the podcast - this is that image:

I just love the subtlety of it! More of Sanjay's beautiful work can be found at https://www.eyejogia.com/

As always, I asked him for a book submission for ou library and he recommended  "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" by Robert Kiyosaki. This is a book I've read a couple of times and is well worth the investment!  

Enjoy!

Cheers

P.

---

If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to Mastering Portrait Photography, where there are articles and videos about this beautiful industry. 

PLEASE also subscribe and leave us a review - we'd love to hear what you think!

If there are any topics, you would like to hear, have questions we could answer or would like to come and be interviewed on the podcast, please contact me at paul@paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk. 

If you'd like to use one of the other players out there, why not try Vurbl?  

In this episode, I get a chance to talk to the team of qualification judges that I am privileged to be a part of for the British Institue of Professional Photography.

I thought it would be interesting (and so it proved to be) to ask each of them before and after the judging, what they would love to see, what (after the fact) was a highlight and what they would say to anyone thinking of getting themselves qualified.

The two days of judging are really intensive - you can hear the fatigue in the judges' voices later in the podcast - but what they have to see is inciteful and priceless.

The judges in this episode are:

• David Stanbury - https://www.stanburyphotography.co.uk/
• Catherine Beltramini - http://www.catherine-beltraminiphotography.com/
• Sean Conboy - http://seanconboy.com/
• Saraya Corteville - https://sarayacortaville.co.uk/
• James Musselwhite - https://www.portraitofawrestler.com/
• and me - https://paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk

The chair of judges is Scott Johnson -https://www.theedgephotography.co.uk/

And if that weren't enough, I also get the chance to chat with Martin Baynes, the CEO of the British Institute of Professional Photography about qualifications and what the future holds.

• The British Institue Of Professional Photography - https://www.bipp.com/

So, all in all, quite a long podcast (just over an hour), but well worth it. So pour a cuppa, sit back and enjoy an insight into the judges and judging for professional photography qualifications.

Enjoy!

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If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to Mastering Portrait Photography, where there are articles and videos about this beautiful industry. 

PLEASE also subscribe and leave us a review - we'd love to hear what you think!

If there are any topics you would like to hear, have questions we could answer or would like to come and be interviewed on the podcast, please contact me at paul@paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk 

Life as a photographer can feel like you're working on your own - all those hours with the camera, lights, with Photoshop and the complexities of your own business.  But, of course, the truth is a little more nuanced than that: we may be here in our studio on our own, but we have a wealth of talent around us - our suppliers.  Every day, I sell their products, their talents, their ideas to our clients, whether it's a frame, an album or a portfolio, I am wholly reliant on numerous other people to carry my brand.

In this interview, I get the chance to talk with Andy Blake, the General Manager at Kaleidoscope Framing - a company whose wonderful products we have relied on for well over a decade now.  It's a lovely interview (you may get the impression we get on well - and you'd be right!) and we talk about various aspects of the photographic industry and how things are changing - something particularly pertinent in these complicated times.

The fact that we get on well isn't a coincidence - building a relationship with your suppliers is as important as building them with your clients as it's your suppliers who, ultimately, provide the platform on which your products will shine.  It's not about the products, of course, it's about your photography, but displaying your craft in the very best light is what this business is all about. And your suppliers make that possible.

As always with our interviews, I asked Andy to recommend a book to add to our every-expanding library.  He recommended "One Day For Life", a book of photos all taken on a single day in 1987 in aid of Cancer Research.  I couldn't find any new copies but this link https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0593014642/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_OV6mFbGKHVT2G takes you to second-hand copies on Amazon (I bought mine for £2.95!)

Enjoy the interview!

 

 

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If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to Mastering Portrait Photography where there are articles and videos about this wonderful industry. 

PLEASE also subscribe and leave us a review - we'd love to hear what you think!

If there are any topics you would like to hear, have questions we could answer or would simply like to come and be interviewed on the podcast, please contact me at paul@paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk 

In this episode, I get to chat with the guy behind the software behind the business - Light Blue Software.  We've used this software for over a decade and it is the one application that each of us here is guaranteed to log into every single day.

Tom asked if I would help spread the word about an offer that Light Blue extending to all of their customers (new and old) to help through these difficult times and so I thought it would be a good opportunity to invite Tom onto the podcast and ask him about the software, why it's important to track your data and what the future holds.  An interesting interview with a really genuinely lovely guy - who, like me is a techy!

For details of the generous support Tom and the team at Light Blue are offering, head to lightbluesoftware.com.

As is our way, I also asked Tom to nominate a book for our ever-burgeoning library of the curious and the inspirational and his nomination is Landscape Within by David Ward

You can get second-hand copies (and I think there are one or two very expensive new copies around - it's no longer in print) on both Amazon and Abe Books. I've just ordered a copy for the studio for just £11.99 so it's an absolute steal!

Enjoy! 

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If there are any topics you would like to hear, have questions we could answer or would simply like to come and be interviewed on the podcast, please contact me at paul@paulwilkinsonphotography.co.uk